This interchange began on Facebook with a reflection on a conversation I had had about a training exercise aimed at helping staff to be more sensitive to Indigenous people. It developed into an interchange that is unfortunately indicative of some of the problematic attitudes and understandings held by too many White Canadians of the colonial class, for Indigenous people in Canada.
Lawlor Lee: This morning I had an interesting discussion with an Indigenous person who I know very well, Sirius Lee. He works for a provincial government agency. We were joshing back and forth about some new “Indigenous” training that will be offered virtually to members of the civil service. It’s about learning about inclusion, cultural safety and the like, in not one, but two 1.5-hour sessions. Three hours in total. It’s aim, clearly very laudable, is to facilitate a person’s, “own path to reconciliation”. For some reason, neither he or I were very impressed.
Keegan Lee-Newbury2: If the system convinces individuals that reconciliation is a personal responsibility, the system itself is able to remain colonized.
Bruce Strachan3: OK, I know many successful indigenous people who have taken it upon themselves to "heal" as you call it and do well in 21st century Canada. Is that "acknowledging colonialism" or just putting in a lot of hard work and effort to get ahead.
Keegan L-N: Bruce Strachan, it means that you know a lucky minority of people who are able to thrive despite the disadvantages that they have due to the systems inequities.
Sirius L4: I’m De-colonizing ONE day at a TIME !!!!! hehe !!! Lawlor Lee: Bruce Strachan I’m not clear what you mean by “acknowledging colonialism”. As well, your comment appears to suggest that you believe it is up to Indigenous people to “get over it and move on”. Do I understand you correctly?
Bruce S: Keegan Lee-Newbury I would not call them "lucky," I would call them industrious. I'm sure they would agree. Bruce S: Lawlor Lee That term came from Keegan, as "to get over it and move on," you understand me correctly. You have a graduate degree, you worked for it. You saw where you would be without it and you moved on. Can't indigenous people have the same goals?
Keegan L-N: Bruce Strachan the difference is that there are more hoops that Indigenous people have to jump through to get to the starting point that my grandfather had. And my point isn't that hard work doesn't pay off, it's that Indigenous people have to work harder to get to the same place as a white person, the system is built that way and simply my recognizing our colonial histories does nothing to eliminate the continued disadvantages that Indigenous people and communities experience. By saying that a few people made it despite those circumstances diminishes the role that society must play in leveling out the playing field for everyone.
Lawlor L: Bruce Strachan with respect, as much as I can gather, the phrase, “get over it and move on” in my experience simply indicates an ignorance, today I would have to say, “willful ignorance of colonial history. There are systemic barriers that Indigenous people, like my son and my students face, the intergeneration effects of the very real trauma of the residential school horror and the arrogant judgmental social attitudes, such as the ones you evidence, that they deal with daily. Indeed, some have surmounted those barriers, with work and courage. My reading, my study and my experience tells me that hard as I worked (and yep I worked very hard) I did not face the systemic hurdles that Indigenous people do. You ask why they couldn’t do what I’ve done. Please see my previous comments and the words of Jeremy Bomberry (whom I have had the good fortune to come to know as a student) and Keegan Lee-Newbury (who I am proud to say is my grandson.)
Jeremy Bombery5: Bruce Strachan can’t Indigenous people have the same goals?? You’re serious?? Everyone wants the same goals but sometimes, more often than not, the opportunities are not there, and you have to take into consideration the geographical location as well, of our Indigenous communities. If an Indigenous community can’t even get something as simple as a glass of clean water to drink...what makes you think we (every Indigenous person) has the means or the opportunity to get an education?? Darn right we have to work twice as hard to get to where you are, assuming by your comment that you perceive yourself as an educated man. Lol And it’s that colonial mentality that you have that keeps the system where it is, because what you’re basically saying is, just like many other white people, including the government, that we are all lazy and that we just “CHOOSE to” avoid taking the opportunities that are right under our noses... When it’s far from being that easy. So that’s what we are tired of, we are tired of people like you making it seem as if we choose to live a life in despair, rather than get an education, when those were the shitty cards most of us were dealt...because of the government you vote for.
Bruce S: OK all, google Len Marchand, Bill Wilson, Edward John. These are the old guys, there's a lot more, younger successful indigenous British Columbians who have done very well. Lawlor L: Bruce Strachan none of us is taking anything away from the people you name. It is
the situations of the many people you defame with your ignorant attitudes that that we are talking about. Bruce S: Lawlor Lee Who have I defamed?
Lawlor L: Bruce Strachan, fair play, “defamed” is a poor term. What you have been doing, and if you will note some of the other commentators here seem to agree, is to assume that you can define, or at least generalize the experience of Indigenous people from your experience as a member of the Whitestream colonial class. We seem to agree that your generalization is wrong.
Bruce S: Lawlor Lee I am not generalizing, I am referring to successful people. Also, referring to me as a member of the "Whitestream colonial class" is not only odd usage but profoundly incorrect.
Bruce S: Lawlor Lee Respectfully, I disagree.
Jeremy B: Bruce Strachan not only was what you originally said extremely inappropriate, but rude and ignorant... But you can’t even own the BS spewing from your mouth after saying it. There’s no winning with people like you. You’re just simply looking for a debate and an argument. When I invest my time in a serious discussion such as this topic, I’d much rather entertain those who have the balls to stand in their own words, rather than beat around the bush and waste everyone’s time. Mean what you say and say what you mean... Regardless, as an Indigenous Mohawk from Six Nations, I “see where you stand” and it’s people like you who don’t give us much faith or TRUST when it comes to “having to work with” white-stream society, to attempt to build those better relationships, where marginalized people don’t have to worry about hearing comments such as the one you made... The one you are now doing circles around and trying to justify. Typical behaviour. Good day!!
Lawlor L: Jeremy Bomberry in solidarity. 🤙
Bruce S: Jeremy Bomberry Well that was lively. Anyone else you want to blame?
Jeremy B: Bruce Strachan don’t make this about me... Take ownership and responsibility of your own words... Otherwise, move on!!
Lawlor L: Bruce Strachan look man; I’ve seen your comments on other issues and they are usually measured and thoughtful. I’m really surprised and disappointed with the cavalier and patronizing fashion you have talked in this thread. We Whitestream folks need to have some humility. I’ve been at this game for decades and it hasn’t always been comfortable but Indigenous people have taught me a lot. For what its worth I’ve learned to ask questions rather than lecture, and keep my mouth shut until I can be constructive. If you, for some reason, think you have nothing to learn from them go your own way but please leave off the patronizing and insulting language.
1 Lawlor Lee is my “user name” on Facebook. Lawlor is my mother’s maiden name given to me, in the old Irish tradition, as my given name.
2 Keegan Lee-Newbury, in the interchange is my grandson. He simply happened upon my original post, commented and became part of the interchange.
3 Mr. Strachan is a Facebook user, unknown to me otherwise, who saw the original post and felt the need to comment.
4 Sirius Lee. (Sirius is a pseudonym) is an Anishnawbe man who prefers to remain anonymous.
5 Jeremy Bombery is a former student of mine who came upon the post with Mr. Strachan and felt compelled to speak from his own experience.
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